Tanking schoole whit Ghaalrock

ok let get this strait (i dont mean to brag or insulte any one) i know right now am not a tank and there a few ppl in the guild are out gearing me in the tank aspec

put i have experience i tank mc, ony, ZG, an many raid that was in the cool season when we were 60 and now kara in the 70

right now i preffer not to tank why well simplely i dont feel like it and there lots of ppl tanking

to be honest if i was still tanking for the guild no one whould try to tank cause ghaal is tanking and since i stoped tanking there a few ppl who step up to the plate(leather) and pick up the tanking rolle
and doing a nice job at it too if i may add (coughf coughf ...dobber...druidclaw..)

maby one day il step back in the tanking world
(like Artur Pendragon i will come back when most needed)
hehe ya ya i know big ego but hey am french .... shut up warholl whit you german-french joke lol

any how il try to post some links here and there plz feel free to post any tanking point of view or coment or tip and tricks

ok here a link if you your thinking about tanking you might consider i agree whit most of it



http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/06/05/tank-talk-do-you-feel-lucky-punk/

Ghaalrock, may I attend your tanking school? I'll show up every day and I'll try my best to be the best bear tank that I can be! Pretty please?

-Z and Dragon

Hey! T'is a proven fact that Priests can tank too... just not fer as long. But I can do Stockades, Dead Mines, SM, SFK, ZF and a few other pre-BC dungeons just nicely. I'm quite skilled in the art of "blocks with face."

Great idea Ghaal. I hope attendance is good for your classes

Sincerely,

LOL THE FUNY THING IS priest are the pvp tanks

one trick u must understand as a tank regardless of the class if you tanking mobs (not boss)
u are the CC you disided were the fight will be you must try to keep the mobs away from the non melee why.....

if the mobs are away from the mobs
1 it keep the none melee class safe from the splash damage
2 say if the priest is 5 yard from the fight and he crit heals like 5 time and pull agro well it will take 1/2 a sec for the priest to get it in the face it will slow down the heals and the healer will die

but if the priest is like 30 yards from the fight and he pull agro it will take the mobs 5 sec to turn and go hit the priest now 5 sec is all the time the world to save your healer

say you are short of cc in your group and 2-3 mobs can be CC make sure you keep the mob all close , away from the caster and away from thew other CC but keep a EYE on the CC mobs and the caster
why well ...

1 if the mobs are away from the CCed and caster it give the group permition to AoE
2 control, control of a fight is a must as a tank

other tip


here a situation

your in a group raid you must tank 2-3 mobs

now the first target id down at 20% - 25% hp and the other 2 are still at 80% or so

here what you do

keep ahead of the fight
let the DpS fight of the first moband start building agro on the next to die and reably a bit on the 3rd
by the time the first is down to 20% you should have the agro establish so it give the chance to solidify agro on the other ones


this trick is importen cause as we all know were are heavy on dps and heavy dps mean we need more agro builders for are tanks

tanks

off tank

pickup tanks

some ppl will say who cares a tank is a tank

well it a bit rasist cause thos 3 tanks are not the same

here my view on each of them

Tank job: first role it to take damage
seconne role is keep agro
3 rd deside were the fight will be whos tanking what and who CC what

off tank; first roll is to hold the mob for the dps to get on the mob afther the other targets are/is dead
secone take damage and keep agro (now in a ideal sistuation the main tank will come and work is agro off the off tank and let the off tank do dps a bit or take a other loss mob)

Pick up tank: fist roll is to build agro FAST
Why if a tank die or a mob get loss it is job to pick up agro to keep it form going to kill the rest of the group or to bring it back to the main tanks
Now it help having damage taking gear just so he can take the agro and survive it long enought


now it dont stop any tank to mix the roll but at the basic roll that is there jobs

Now if you any question PLZ post them this way it will help keep the section going and in the long run help other tanks to get better even if it a very basic question like
can i tank if am CTpoor
my Anwser is NO you are wearing a purple dress and there there is not tanking dress aloud

Ok now that Ghaalrock has gone over the Different types of tanks that are needed during a raid and sometimes during an instance. I'm gonna introduce you to the Paladin Tank...now some of you may say, "but your not a tank, your a healer" ah but i was a tank once, and did tank inside of Kara successfully before becoming a healer. So here are some tips to tank as a Paladin...

FIRST AND FOREMOST ALWAYS MAKE SURE "RIGHTEOUS FURY" IS ACTIVE WHEN TANKING

Tanking Demons and Undead is slightly Different so we will start our discussion talking about all the other targets...

1) "Avenging Shield" should always start off a fight, it creates a large amount of threat quickly.
2) Seal of Righteousness should be cast on yourself then immediately on to the target to create additional threat.
3) You can do a couple of things next...Personally I like the following order....
-Cast "Consecration" continuous Holy damage for 8 secs.
-Seal of Wisdom Followed by an immdediate judgment onto the target this
ensures mana regen.
-Cast Seal of Vengence, as you hit the target a DoT is placed in target
causing Holy Damage
-When SoV stacks 5 times it will last 18 secs, so Judge SoV which will cause
Damage and will not erase the DoT of the Spell,
-Cast Seal of Righteousness so when your meleeing the target your causeing
Holy damage, when the SoV DoT is about to time out, Judge SoR, and then
recast Sov and start the DoT over again.
4) Don't forget to keep casting your "Consecration" and also "avenging Shield" can also be used.
5) Also the use of Hammer of Justice can be handy as this does cause some threat, but it can also give you 5 secs of no damage time for your Healers to "top you off"

***Now for Demon/Undead Targets theres not much difference except that you can use Exorcism on the target which will do a lot of Holy Damage to the Target...There is also Holy Wrath which I suggest saving for when your fights Multple undead targets.

This wraps up our discussion on tanking with a Paladin, Stay tuned next time for helpful Specs to ensure being the best tank you can be.

Sincerely,

Now that you know how about the way that a Paladin tanks, let's move onto the Druid tank. Druids are alot like a Warrior and they're very different too. I know that you're saying "How can they be the same and different Z?", well I'll tell you.

First of all Druids can't block so they get hit with crushing blows all the time. Normally that would kill any other tank but Duids stack alot of Stamina, Agility and Armor to make those crushing blows seem like a normal hit on any other tank. The one key thing to try to achieve is to become uncrittable. A crit followed by a crushing blow would always kill a Druid so becomming crit immune is a must!

They are one of the best offtanks available because they can do some half decient dps in their tanking gear when they dont need to be a bear.Being able to switch from dps to tanking in an instant and keep a mob's attention until the main tank comes to save the poor bear is what makes them awsome pick up tanks too! Their ability to cause alot of threat in a small amount of time is one of their special characteristics.

The one thing though is that Druids don't have very many panic buttons, so they have to collect trinkets that have a dodge boost when they're used. In collecting these trinkets they can become almost unhittable when all their dodge boosts are activated in hopes of getting a much needed heal in a sticky situation. They really have to trust their healers when things go bad and cross their fingers that they dont get an unlucky crush.

The basic tanking rotation is pretty simple since there's only 4 main threat generating abilities available; Mangle, Maul, Lacerate and Swipe.
- Swipe is the least used ability and should only be used when you're tanking more then 2 mobs at the same time and that you're positive you won't hit any Crowd Controlled targets. Even then, it's not as good as Tab-Lacerating.
- Mangle should always be used whenever the cooldown is finished and is a must for any feral tank to put points into.
- Maul is for when you have extra rage to spare. Spamming this when you're unable to spend your rage fast enough is key to building up a fast, strong amout of threat over you're dps
- Lacerate is your main tanking ability, it's your Sunder. Love it and keep it safe. The whole damage part of it is how Druid's tank. You should be spamming this all the time to ensure the maximum amout of threat generation. Alternating between spamming Lacerate and Maul is key to strong tanking.

With mobs that break loose and decide that you're not intresting anymore, that's when you use a Feral Charge, Growl and Bash it if you think it'll kill it's target in a couple of hits. Unleash a Mangle, Maul and a Lacerate or two and you should be good to prance back to you're tanking spot with you're new best buddy.

The key talents to pick up to be a successful tank are:
1) Thick Hide -helps max out your armor
2) Feral Charge - you're own charge to catch loose mobs
3) Feral Instinct - increased threat generation is always good
4) Survival of the Fittest - less stats are needed to become uncrittable
5) Mangle - the second best tanking ability for Druids

That's a basic rundown on a Druid tank. I hope this has helped people understand the role of Druid tanks and their abilities too. If anybody has any questions please don't be afraid to send me an ingame message or wisper me, I promise I don't bite.

now now i whant nto start a discusiont on a point of view for tanking

is the question

is it better to have full stam to have 20k + hp
or
have full def armore doge,parry/block

plz replie whit what you think
even is it two words like

ghaal sucks

I think it really depends on what your role is on the raid or instance. I think a main tank should have better defense, dodge, parry, and block. While an off tank should have better defense, resists, and stamina. (also depends slightly on your class and build like for a prot pally (and possibly a prot warrior) most important is stam, block, defense, parry (mostly in that order: block and defense can be interchanged))(also INT or mana regen should be thrown in there too somewhere near the end to help in marathon runs)

That being said then all of really is important but in the long run a main tank should be hard as heck to hit and should take little damage when they do get hit; where as, an off tank doesn't really need to be bullet proof then just need to be able to last until the main tank can get back online should they have something go afoul.

I am use to healing in most of the games that I play and make it my duty to know as much as possible about all aspects of classes/character and dev programming(ie mob and boss actions. I am not an expert by any means but I do pride myself on being observant and logical about everything.

Great discussion so far. I'm not the greatest tank and at times me on multiple mobs equals an epic fail, but I do know the fundamentals.

Answering ghaals question: depends, if you have the healing 4k crits don't

I know that tanks for BT have basically dropped anything and everything for Stamina.
Defence is a plus but apperantly they go for eating the big hits and crushing blows with pure hit points.. just being a soaker, like Druids. But that is also based on the fact that there healers probally are over the +2000 for healing mark, by that time.

- Atherial

Atherial wrote:

I know that tanks for BT have basically dropped anything and everything for Stamina.
Defence is a plus but apperantly they go for eating the big hits and crushing blows with pure hit points.. just being a soaker, like Druids. But that is also based on the fact that there healers probally are over the +2000 for healing mark, by that time.

- Atherial

This being said in BT I know that in a few fights you need 2 Priests focus 100% on the tank at all times chain healing them while other off healers (usually trees and shammys) take care of the rest of the group.

This makes sense to me now if they are dedicating all stats on armor to stamina.

I know for Pally tanks your priority is Stamina, Armor, Spell damage. And hopefully you can get a couple of pieces of Int for mana.

Yeah, Paladin Tanking gear and Warrior Tanking gear are very much differant and very easy to tell the differance. Any Gear that has Int and Defence is Pally as it;s a usless stat for Warrior. Also for Paladins pure stamina and Defence gear should honestly be avoided.

Why?

Because your not a warrior, all abilities that you have as a Paladin is mana based/spell damage based. There is nothing stopping you from collecting warrior tank gear, but generally you won't perfom like a warrior anyways, and as soon as you run out of mana your screwed. It's only a matter of time before that damn dirty DPS'er over nukes and kills everyone.

Now granted that with Seal of Wisdon, Judgment of wisdom, and Blessing of Wisdom can restore on average +200 Mana per attack, AND with your spiritual attunment it takes a % amount of alll healing and puts that directly into mana for you, Paladins still seem hell bent to try and DPS tank rather then just Mana Conserve tank.

Once again Why is that you say?

Because a Paladins threat generated is directly poportional to the amount of Damage they can do. no damage = no Threat. Even with Rightious fury that increases all threat from holy damage by 60%, some poor Pally tanks feel the need to Panic Pound there DPS keys and waste all there mana even when they get all this mana back in return. A direct result of the Paladin tank class beinging a "Easy to tank" Role. But in the hands of an experianced Paladin, this "Tanking for Dumies Class" can be hugly formidible, as well as turn your 6 hour Grind Raid into a 3 Hour and change Blitz... or Less!

All you need is a damage Meter and some Bonus to Damage Gear, and mobs will stick to you like stink on a monkey.

With all of the native abilities a Paladin tank has to offer, they can easily be the first kind of tank to be Uncrushable with a much less gear requirement. But Soakers they arn't ment to be , that is where the Warrior Tank shines, and maintains there title as Perfect Tank for Bosses....uh.. er... Class.

- Atherial

i agree whit you on the easy to tank role for paly
but that can be sayed for warstank to

hey any noob can spam sunder for 10 min an keep going as long as the healer can hold

for wars you can build you spec in diffrented ways like just armor def
some like to have a very hight block some like to a good plus to hit for faster agro building

this is how i tank well try to tank

i open whit a sheald bash that about 800 Agro now shield bash is to conter spell and such even is the boss/mob dont cast spell it effeck of stoping a spell (even if there no spell) will piss off the boss/mob

now that i have some agro i hit devasted(this is the sunder for tank spec wars)
now if i hit that hability and spam it i can keep 500 agro per secone
in a normal guild it good enought but not in this guild were are heavy on Dps so i

now during the fight in not spescific order i use thos ability

demoralizing shout
why you ask first it reduce attack power by 300-400 so whent the boss/mob do a melee hit is reduce the damage a bit
now you may say just a bit no point of waysting rage
well ya just a bit but if for exp let say whit the shout the mob hit for 20dam less per hits
well if you keep it up during the fight and say the fight last for 6mim
and let even guess that the boss/mob hit you in a avrg of15 time per mins
now pull a calculator out check this out
15(hit) times 20 that 300
now 300 time 6(min)
now that that 1800
and what 1800 means that mean on less flash heals (whit out plus to heals)
that also means less mana the heals have to spend and if the heal spend less mana that means less down time and mo0re chance of some one died
and if you think am done guess again

tunder clap (i have improve)
now my TC give me 20% slower melee attack

let take the exp of the fight again now a 6min long fight
now let say the boss/mob hit 15 time per mins and he hit on avg of 300(whit the D-shout on)
now there many ways to calculat this i do it this way
now 15 hit time 6mins that 90 hit for the fight
noe 20% of 90 is 18
ok now you do 18 times 300 that 5400
and what 5400 means well same as the shout

so whit 2 hability i manage to save 7200
that 7200 damge that the healers dont need to heals
that not counting splash and aoe melle damge i reduce

theres shield block the improve will block 3 hit during 1 sec saving even more damage
(remeber i tossed ramdom number in that fantasy fight we all know that a typical boss fight the boss will hit way more then just 15 hits per min and hit harder then 300 a hit)

guess the point am making how is any noob tank spec war can tank and just hit sunders but a good tank will make sure the heals dont loss 20lbs formhealing like a madman cause the tank is getting hit hard and is hp is droping fast


ps it late when i type all that stuff and if you feel like coresting my enshish feel free to do it

Atherial wrote:

Also for Paladins pure stamina and Defence gear should honestly be avoided.

- Atherial

I disagree with this slightly. Yes, there are better gear out there but stamina is very important for a pally since we don't have the spectrum of resistances that say a bear tank would have or a good ability to dodge and parry like a warrior would have. So, pally tanks tend to take on more spell damage then the other 2 there for must have the HP to live through a crit since in a group or raid bubble is not an option for a main tank.

Defense is also very important for anyone who has played a pally tank knows that your bread and butter for BOTH keeping aggro AND for absorbing damage is your block. That is the biggest asset of a pally tank is the ability to block and block often with Holy Shield.

Also, Defense is very important for any pally tank, and this is where I slightly disagree with a statement said in your post. The way Pallys keep aggro is not by damage or DPS alone. DPS and physical damage is only 5% of aggro management for a pally. The only 95% is HOLY damage. Which is greatly influenced by +spell damage items. The BIGGEST and FASTEST way to keep and hold aggro 100% of the time is with Holy Shield. Which means we need to block and block often. This will also help reduce or negate damage which makes it easy on the priest's mana pool. So Defense is very important to help raise the Pally's Block rate percentage. Also, if the pally is at least 10 point spec into Retribution (usually 13 to get "Pursuit of Justice" not so much for the run speed increase then for the extra 3% to have spells not land) then typically they have +5% to parry which if you have +defense items will help that as well to elevated damage.

That being said, I main tank for a group that I normally run with. Our Priest has a Pally tank and knows that I need heals to keep mana. I can tell you that i rarely run out of mana with him in the party. (only during very long boss fights).

Quote :

Also for Paladins pure stamina and Defence gear should honestly be avoided.

- Atherial

Silvenori, we just said the same thing... as I said that PURE defence and stamina gear.. not once did I say defence and stamina wasn't useful for a paladin.. but Warrior set type gear isn't paladin tanking gear.

And if my post is re-read, I specifically state that Paladins deal dps as tanks threw spell damage. I apologize if my post was confusing... sometimes the ranting goes awry.

- Atherial

Atherial wrote:

Quote :

Also for Paladins pure stamina and Defence gear should honestly be avoided.

- Atherial

Silvenori, we just said the same thing... as I said that PURE defence and stamina gear.. not once did I say defence and stamina wasn't useful for a paladin.. but Warrior set type gear isn't paladin tanking gear.

And if my post is re-read, I specifically state that Paladins deal dps as tanks threw spell damage. I apologize if my post was confusing... sometimes the ranting goes awry.

- Atherial

No no probably my fault I sometimes ready too into posts .

Although something interesting I've heard that in Wrath prot pallys and prot warriors will be sharing gear? Not sure what that means but something I'd be interested to see how they justify.