Guild Rules N Regulations: The Ties That Bind Us

Guild Rules N Regulations: The Ties That Bind Us

It was posted a while back about getting up some rules n regs fer the Guildies to follow. Fer the most part it's all pretty much common sense, but some things should be set down fer either future reference or else pointing out to us newbies in the Guild...

Raid & Instance Leaders
It is my opinion that only one person should be in charge of the Raid or Instance that a group is running. Whether it be the person who's run it the most, or the one who can evaluate the situation the best, makes no difference. Whomever IS the leader they should be followed by everyone in the group. They pick the targets, place the markers and set the overall pace/tone of the run. Any sort of dissention beyond that will more than likely end up in a wipe.

Raid/Instance Tag Markers
Those of you who've been in here for a while already know the routine, but again, fer us newbs, it needs to be explained. It ain't that we're dumb as a Murloc, jus' that we don't know yer system yet. A simple briefing before the run begins explaining what the skull, X, circle, moon, square and such means will save a wipe down the line.

Roles in the Raid/Instance
Fer meself, it's pretty obvious I'm runnin' as healer, be it primary or "second crash cart" but other people may not have so clearly a defined role picked out. I've heard more 'an one storey outlining how there was no organization and the group wiped several times. Again, a brief discussion of who's tankin', who's "clean-up" (goin after runners) and so on doesn't hurt, only saves the headaches down the line.

In regards to these suggestions, they may seem redundant to many o' ye level 60's runnin raids e'ery night, but fer us new members that are sloggin are way up in our own low-level groups, we don't know yer system. We can't run with ye ta get the info or experience because your instances won't allow us to participate with you. So ta save frustrations and headaches fer when we do get up there wit ye all, a simple 5 minute "mission briefing" can only make things better in the long run.

-Foddermike

RAIDS, THE GUILD & YOU:
It has been discussed, and only recently have I been made "privvy" to these discussions, about how Guild members are to handle running certain raids with either a PUG or else another Guild. Using the Molten Core & ZG raids as my example, if our Guild is currently performing MC runs then Guild members are expected to make MC runs with the Guild. If a member wants to run through ZG, they can with any other Guild members or else find another group that is doing it and accepting tag-alongs. When the Guild switches and starts doing ZG runs, all Guild members are expected to make those runs with the Guild, and they are now free to do MC runs with any other Guild/group.

The reasoning about this minor restriction is to make sure that as a Guild our members know how to work together in any particular instance and to make sure the gear being sought isn't taken by some other group. By working together as a Guild, fairness can be assured, lives can be saved and gear can be looted! Oh yeah, and Atherial can do his "crazy pulls" that he loves doing.

-Foddermike

LOOTING ETTIQUETTE
or "I'm a Rogue, not a Thief"

This situation has existed in any game, in any variation; there's always at least one person/group that help themselves to whatever "loot" has been recovered off NPCs before the whole raid/party has finished eliminating the enemies.

Now, in a good group, where everyone knows everyone and you all understand your roles, there is no problem of looting. More often than not, the one doing the looting while combat is still happening is doing so because they always redistribute back into the group, just to keep things moving along quickly. Sometimes other players will say, "I don't want anything, grab all you want."

This is another example of a minor detail that should be covered at the start before any raid/instnace begins, especially in a 20+ man raid where trying to track who is "snafu'ing"/"ninja'ing" what is difficult. If it is noticed and the "offender" of the rule does not correct their actions, they should be either removed from the raid/instance or else put on notice within the Guild. The idea is to make sure everyone gets a fair chance at items - need or greed.

I speak from experience - both good and bad. I had gone after loot when I first began playing WoW while running in a group before all the fighting finished. It was brought to my attention to wait until everyone was done fighting before looting was to happen, and I was fine with that. On the other end, I've been a part of a few "trash runs" grouped with several high-levels (around lvl 45-60 chars) and was told just to stay close enough to get the XP but back enough not to die. On those occasions I was told to grab whatever I could for loot and not worry about combat at all. Being the "low-man" on the totem if I got too close I would pull aggro faster than Atherial could shake his Night Elven "booty" on a tabletop.

My long-winded point: only grab loot after ALL party combat has finished uness you are told otherwise by the raid leader.

-Foddermike

You forgot to mention.....

In a raid or instance where all members are of equal lvl, It is appropriate ettiquette to wait to loot until any members that may have died during combat be rez'd or has come back into the room from death.. all members must be up and present before looting so that they may have a fair chance at any drops. (unless other factors are specified) That is just common curtousy.

Thank ye lad, a very good point I had indeed missed. All members should be fully rez'd/alive before the "Dance O' The Looted Corpse" begins.

Recently I have been made aprised about how the looting structure works and I am all the wiser for it...

MASTER LOOT
There are a few people who do not like this setup as it "curbs their freedom to grab what they want." As only the leader can check the bodies fer loot and then link the items fer others ta view an' decide upon, I feel this is perhaps the fairest way of controlling loot in the raids. Now, I say raids an' not instances because doing a smaller/low-level instance like VC, DM or even SM, the ones yer partied up wit will more an' likely be ones ye know an' trust so there's no need fer that type o' lootin restrictions. Raids, however, is when e'eryone gets together fer the common good o' tha Guild to help out it's members gettin' either epic gear or else getting upgrade gear fer more an' one character.

Another item ta add in fer the Master Loot setup is a "spec'ing order." This is a list for the raid leader to know who's character is built in what way and what type of gear they should be going fer. Fer example:

Foddermike (me) is being built for a Primary Healer role. The gear I should be goin' fer is anything to offer bonus heal, intellect/spirit, anythin' beyond that is pure greed. If a Dagger happens ta drop that offers nice DPS, but also bonus heal, it then comes down to the raid leader to check his list fer who is goin' fer Daggers an' if there is anyone, then that/those player(s) an meself will roll on the item ta keep it fair. If there is no other players ta be *needin'* Daggers, but there are some who want it jus' to have, then it goes to me an' I decide if I really do need it or if I pass an' the "fighters" can have it amongst themselves.

Master Loot is also a great system fer the same reason why people hate playin' wit PuGs; loot stealers. PuG's more often than not end badly because some beardless yellow-belly will do next to nothing and immediately after the corpse falls, check it an' grab all they can, regardless if ye stated ye be needin' a particular item to upgrade yer set. Same ting in a raid. Goin' wit Master Loot solves the problem o' those pesky "Loot Ninjas" and makes certain that the one who does need it (not just *want* it) gets the item drops. Other items up fer grabs as trash are then free fer the roll process.

If a member truly has a problem with the whole Master Loot system, by all means discuss it wit the raid leader or Guild Managers/council members. Perhaps something is being overlooked that deserves another glance... perhaps not.

-Foddermike

UPDATE

LOOT GUIDE
There was a fairly lengthy discussion about how to determine a fair and equal system of distributing loot in raids amongst those who attended. As no one system will ever appease everyone, a working solution was proposed and will be put to test in the next few runs. This system covers 4 criteria:

1) Melee/Range - the item in question is checked for it if is a melee type or ranged type. For example, "marksman" spec'd Hunters don't get to roll on Melee-type items.

2) Key Stats - what are the key stats that are affected by the item? Casters go for Intellect/Spirit, for example.

3) Proc - what is the granted ability of the item? Even though a Dagger may drop, if the ability it has benefits the Healers more so than the others and it benefits the Guild overall, then they get to roll for it.

4) Level Difference - Depending on the instance, if more than 1 player qualifies to roll for the item, they must be within 2 levels of being able to use it, otherwise those closer to the item level get priority... unless otherwise stated at the start of the run. This isn't so much a problem for end-game runs, but when helping lower-level players do instances it could be; this just helps keep things fair.

As I mentioned, this is not a perfect system, but it is by far the least discriminatory, be it by class, spec or in-game race. As our Guild does not enforce mandatory specs for each class, this system is about the only fair one to use. Should something better come along, then this will be rattified to reflect it.


RAID TACTICS
Another lengthy discussion with a somewhat heated debate added to it. Ultimately it boils down to this overriding concept: teamwork. If you're with a group doing any instance/raid, you work as a group/team to accomplish the end goal. There is no soloing, that only ends up in either your char's death or a raid wipe. Don't be the "hero"... unless everyone else is dead and the Boss is down to 3%, then just nuke with all ye got!

Here are the results of the meeting:

1) Teamwork - success depends on everyone in the raid group to work with everyone else. Each player going in a raid group will have a certain role to perform once inside. If you aren't willing to do that, you don't belong in the raid.

2) DPS/Aggro Management - Unless you're the main tank, you don't need to max-out your DPS with every hit. If you aren't the main tank, you won't survive once you pull that aggro off him/her. If you pull aggro off the main tank... Healers will be instructed not to heal you. Any complaints on that, see item 1) Teamwork.

3) Know Your Role - By this, I mean if you're in a raid as the Healer or part of the Healer group, don't be whipping out all your Shadow spells. You'll only drain your mana and be caught short when it counts. Also, you may be a Rogue, and one that can kill just about anything, but in a raid, if you aren't the main tank, you don't need to prove you can out DPS him/her. Your role is to support the main tank and make sure runners don't get more than 2 steps away. If you are not sure what your role in a raid is, check with the raid leader. They'll be more than happy to get you in the right position, and they'll welcome the fact you want to work with the group as a whole.


Side Note: Some mods/addons have been mentioned and put up for consideration of being standard/mandatory for when running all-guild raids:

TeamSpeak This external program is a *MUST* for raiders. No one can type fast enough, or read fast enough, to cover what is happening in combat in the chat window. Hearing someone lets you react quickly. If you don't have TeamSpeak, it's up to the raid leader if they want to bring you in or not - it's nothing personal so don't take it like that... people just hate losing gold to repair bills.

X-Perl Unit Frames - This is a great UI replacement that does the job of a large number of separate add-ons, all in one nice convenient package. Everything from Buff/Debuff timers to moveable windows, all the way to raid group windows replacing party windows. Definitely worth checking out. And since most members of the guild already use X-Perl, lots of help for settings and fine-tuning is available.

Omen - This add-on gives a detailed listing of the threat generated by your attacks and/or spells cast. All raiders using Omen are synchronized together, which helps everyone in the raid to better manage their generated threat and to ensure the tanks are keeping the mobs focused on them and not turning their attentions to the Rogues who wanna play tank.

These add-ons might seem awkward at first, but they are tools that can help to greatly improve the efficiency of the raids, especially if everyone uses them properly. If you need help with settings or configurations, just ask in Guild Chat and someone will be able to come to your aid.

-Foddermike

** UPDATE **
Alrighty, well I am now 52nd level (does his li'l happy dance) and able to start doing the "Big Runs" with me guildies. As such, I have seen how the looting system of our guild is put into action...

One of the key factors to the whole system working is the fact that most everyone knows what items they need and what ones they're just looking to greed for either disenchant components or gold. Also, the group/raid leader knowing a fair bit about the classes and what items could go good for them helps a lot too.

I must say, from having done a few pug runs, I can't complain about how we divy up out main loot. As always mentioned (or at least considered the silent rule) if someone can get an upgrade out of a dropped item, and it falls within the looting guide for our guild, then you're free to *NEED* it and others can either *PASS* or *GREED* it. If a group goes into an instance with the intent of getting a particular character or class some "uber" gear, I have seen the rest of the party pass on the dropped items without a second thought to greeding them. I don't really know of any other group that puts forth that kind of effort to make its members stronger.

All in all, I wouldn't want to run any other loot system if I have a say in it.

-Foddermike

Having been on several runs in many different areas and doing several different run types (a disenchant run, a greed run, a Lightforge run) I like it best when the run type is stated right at the beginning. When Atherial says all greens are greed and all blue are for Foddermike unless you NEED it are the best. The one thing I find the worst is the higher level people are not grabbing the money as they go by, everyone should have a certain role in a run and it should all be decided before hand.

I use a mod to control all of my looting in groups/raids. It's called passloot. It allows you to set up rules as general as all BoP or BoE or as specific as Prismatic Mittens of Mending.

It allows you to get on with the dungeon without worrying if your mad clicking just selected need or greed instead of targeting the mob to pull off of the healer.

If you want a more peaceful time raiding check it out:

http://www.wowace.com/wiki/PassLoot

Interesting little add-on ye got there. Dunno if I'm gonna be able to support yet another add-on (me 'pooter cringes whene'er I do that) but could be worth looking into.

Sincerely,